Quote from Shotglass :

to a certain extent yes
although i still dont think that tablets as a whole provide any useful functionality anyway

This is what I was going to reply with, but I like Kev so I didn't want to argue. I have no idea why anyone would use a tablet for recording (other than the hipsters doing it in Apple adverts). As far as I know Amplitube is also an Android app as well anyway...

Quote from theirishnoob :

mac's always had viruses ( the users are a virus, but thats a totally different thread )

This is all I was poking fun about. I have no real problems with Apple devices themselves, it's only their business practices and brainwashed lemmings for a user-base that get me incensed from time to time. People should get iPads and iPhones if they like them, but for the love of all things good, they NEED to stop pretending that tablets and smartphones were in any way shape or form "invented" by Apple, and that there aren't alternatives out there ... most of which offer a lot more functionality. Kudos to their marketing efforts though, I guess that's all it's really about in the end since their target demographic appears to be superficial droolers with more money than sense

Quote from Specht77 :

Finally i'm back from the 3 month ban...

Well, don't know why so many people are complaning about the driving on dirt3, of course it's not a simulator, but it's not bad, not even close to be as bad as NFS carbon, NFS undercover, etc...

If you use the correct settings, you can have lot's of fun even with 900 degrees as you can see in my video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDQjKkNvknw

HMM...

That looks pretty fun to me!

I wasn't sure reading some of the other comments but I think I can risk it, thanks for the video

Quote from thisnameistaken :

TBH I'm way more productive with my current Macbook Pro than I ever have been with a windows box. If you need a *nix desktop machine you can't get a better one than a Mac.

If Ubuntu was good enough I'd be as happy as a dog with two dicks, but it isn't.

What the hell does productivity really have to do with your OS? Can you copy pasta faster or something? I do know that you're a musician, so am I, so PLEASE don't tell me you're one of those latte sipping pastel turtle "T" sporting crapple eaters that give technology the sour taste of idiocy? For the love of God Kev they haven't gotten to you have they? Point out on the doll where they stuffed the apple seeds...

This thread is full of scare: First Kev and also Racer X NZ is making sense?! Shit's going downhill.

Quote from PMD9409 :

We are pulling over 7Gs in some high speed corners.

What? Really?

I'm no F1 expert and I rarely pay attention to it - but shouldn't that be around half of that or a tad more? (MAYBE 5 tops?)

Last edited by Ball Bearing Turbo, Sun 8 Apr 2012, 05:29.

Got a free copy of it with a laptop... Videos look half decent handling wise, can anyone tell me how it drives? I'm not expecting a sim, but is it actually fun with a G25?

Just wondering before I download 12gb to delete it 5 mins later...

Thanks

I notice it in RF2, if you come to a hairpin you can see it on the car in front some times as they turn in sharp. Of course they actually model the brake temperature properly. It's a little silly that this isn't in LFS, it really shouldn't be too hard to do.

Hm, deja vu... it's almost like I've had this conversation 30 times over the past 8 years....

Quote from PMD9409 :

"Sim racers only feel the wheel and have nothing outside of that. They don't know what a real race car feels like, therefore their statement is invalid."

"Real racers are use to feeling their car through G's, therefore when they race on a sim they lose all that feeling and always think something is missing".

Heh.

Are those quotes from iR staff? If so that's dreadfully pathetic and unresearched.

see Todd's posts about how the users of his RC sim can "feel" the cars both in real life and through the sim. He had a whole soliloquy about how we humans can adapt our senses through visual means when using input tech, and I do believe what he says. There's a lot more to it than those vastly ignorant quotes you posted try to convey!

Quote from BlueFlame :

The feeling of a car isn't just the FFB, it's the reletive movement that you see on the screen aswell. If your input doesn't match or correlate to what's happening on screen then you don't have the feeling.

Besides, some of the cars on NTM don't even feel like cars at all (they feel more like two front wheels and two balls for rear wheels) and we all know what cars feel like to drive.

It's naiive to assume that driving a road car has no relevance at all to how you feel a car at the limit because at the end of the day physics don't change from car to car. Physics are unchangeable. The physics behind a rubber tyre and the road fundamentally stay the same no matter what the scenario. So, yes I believe that the majority of sim racers can understand physics. That's why iRacing feels better than NFS in most cases. Just because we've not driven at 180mph through Eau Rouge doesn't mean that we don't know the reality of driving on the limit.


tl;dr
In a sense a race car is just a scaled up version of a road car, more grip, more speed, more aero.
So a road car definately has relevance to simracing, the feeling of understeer, oversteer are the same in every car, it's only the characteristics of the car that dictate the scenario they don't dictate the physics.

While in an esoteric sense that might be true, that scaling causes a lot more changes just like driving a go-cart is nothing like driving a road car. Same physics, different scaling, and different enough outputs that they don't really relate well in terms of intuition. So yes, even though you may have driven on the limit, it doesn't mean you have a clue what it's like doing so at 180MPH in a car with 4 times the power, 1/2 the weight, and 1.5x the mechanical grip through tires alone lest you forget the variable of downforce altogether!

I kind of see what you're getting at but it's only partially true.

Hmm, wow I didn't think that - I thought it worked on Vista/7 both.

Really sorry about that!

Upgrading to 7 is cheaper than a new video card(s) though, and well worth it IMO. Though I never had a problem in Vista I think it was because I started using it near the end of it's life cycle ( all the SPs ).

I've been using 7 since the RC came out and been really really happy.

Again, sorry about the oversight I just assumed it worked fine on Vista as well

Yeah there's what you're saying in that post which I call wheel-hop; that might not be the right term either. That's a good sign in and of itself, but not what I'm talking about:

What I'm talking about is that sometimes if you hit the inside hard enough that it's almost airborne while the outside is holding the fort, I feel very "tight" feeling oscillations for about a second like the sim is transferring the effect of the tire's & suspension's damping forces since they're not being soaked up by the road. If that's really what's happening I'd be amazed, but it sure as hell seems like that's what it is. Could test it I guess by intentionally countersteering and slamming the inside down to see if that would stop the oscillation immediately (even though I'll be planted firmly into something other than the tarmac shortly after :P)

Quote from PMD9409 :

Check two of my comments here, might help.

The physics feel quite good. I believe that the underlying physics engine is much better than rF1, and is on par with current simulations. Obviously being beta it is still lacking a few features, however it is definitely a potential candidate for being fantastic. The feel and how the tires behave is already really good. The change in enviroment is something remarkable.

Mod support should be quite good. Some of the tracks that are WIP are looking quite good as well.

Completely agree with Phil.

Zero regrets getting this, and finally allowed me to unsub iRacing. Looking foward to the when there is a strong community & leagues in RF2 because the driving is second to none, and already far more dynamic than anything out there.

edit: also question here for PMD:
Is it just me or can you actually feel the tire's oscillation frequency in the F3.5? I just started driving this thing recently and I really like it. Once you soften it a bit it drives real nice. There is wheel hop occuring in low downforce situations, and I notice that if you clip a curb hard that I feel some pretty tight oscillations that FEEL like they are from the tires/suspension which I've never noticed in LFS or iR or NKP. Not talking about rumbling from the curbs themselves, but for example if you clip a curb in the inside hard while the outside is loaded a lot you feel some strong oscillations in the wheel that die off over about 1 to 1.5 seconds. have you noticed that and what do you make of it?

Last edited by Ball Bearing Turbo, Fri 6 Apr 2012, 21:07.

If you have 2 570s, you can use nVidia Surround - you don't need Soft Triplehead.

Not sure what else you play, but for LFS, what you have is more than enough

edit: sorry I noticed the resolution. The 680 would be slower than your two 570s overall mind you, I don't know how much vRAM your version of the 570s have. But you'd lose some raw horsepower according to every benchmark I've read. I suggest you just try using nVidia Surround instead of STH that'd probably give you better performance to begin with. To set it up, it's in the same area where you enable/disable SLI & select the physX processor.

Last edited by Ball Bearing Turbo, Fri 6 Apr 2012, 00:26.

Quote from Rappa Z :

I've just gotten back into iRacing and am enjoying it once again, but jeez do people have sticks up their asses.

I just got chewed out for racing a guy too had because I was 'slowing him own'. I'll admit, I bumped him once (0x), which I apologized for before and after the race, as well as backed off to give him a break, but he bitched me out because I ran too much side-by-side! Honestly, what do you want me to do, wipe your ass for you instead of challenge for the lead?

I didn't even beat him in the end, he ran himself off the track trying to pull away from me. Such a sore loser, I ended his 4 race win streak.

Well that's actually good racing as far as I'm concerned, too bad the guy doesn't know that. I won many a race in LFS just by pestering the guy in front of me - unseasoned racers will almost inevitably make a mistake if you just hang around and act like you could do something at any moment. Then they generally out-brake themselves or something, seems to me there's a lot of psychology in racing. I was never the fastest guy out there, but I was consistent and fast enough that I could usually pressure the guys ahead into doing something unfortunate... It's actually quite rewarding to hang in there for a lot of laps, watching your prey crumble and sweat and then eventually going wide or getting on power too early Makes me want to race online again

Quote from der butz :

I will.

Here you go :-)

greetz

der who has seen these chefs live in action a long time ago

uh.... hm...

Done

LOL, Phil, exactly. God forbid I drop a wheel or two for a split second if my wife is watching a movie; I quickly get "informed" that the G25 is too loud (a polite STFU for all intents and purposes).

Quote from MAGGOT :

but when I popped into rF2 for a go around Spa it felt so smooth. Almost alien, was weird.

Is that in the F1? If so something is wrong, because the wheel almost gets ripped from my hands if I'm not careful (I haven't increased the FFB, that's with defaults)

Quote from CheerioDM :

I have already abandoned rFactor 2 because it has not pushed the envelope like 2012 expects. I have raced so many times and it is still generic. This year may not even give me anything I have been waiting for since 2010.

Like what? The graphics are medium but it sure as shit has a lot more actual features in terms of RACING than other sim offerings. It's only in Beta, and the 370Z for example blows away anything else I ever drove (LFS, iRacing, NKP) in terms of physics.

The dynamic track and weather add a ton to the experience, there's no other proper sim that has this yet. It has brake temps which iRacing just got around to adding for some cars recently, I could go on but there's already an RF2 thread. I just have no idea what you've been waiting for since 2010 that RF2 doesn't at least partially address.

Ah shit.

GREAT.

I guess I'll be subbing to iRacing again someday by the looks of it.

This is bullshit.

edit: well, by the time the car is actually ready, RF2 will probably have some good mods with Porches, so I may not be in danger...

Quote from Victor :

-Now we want to take LFS to the next level by upgrading the physics. I guarantee you, you have no idea of how difficult this is. Give everyone a giant CPU and GPU and sure it's fairly easy to develop a super accurate racing sim. But you know, it doesn't work like that. LFS needs to run on slower machines as well. So shortcuts to better physics need to be found, without producing weird side effects. You go and try that. I wish you all the luck in the world.

Thanks Victor for posting at all, nice to see!

Though I'd pose the same question here back to you guys - I think it's clear after this amount of time that Scawen didn't and likely still doesn't know the magnitude of difficulty involved. Not to sound pessimistic, but if the time the man (who is clearly brilliant) has been working on this has to be measured in years, then I do have to wonder about the concept of realistic possibility. I guess only he has any remote idea where he may be in the process of granulating and distilling the new tyre physics; but not knowing where you'll end up once it runs on an abacus might be setting you and your fanbase up for a massive disappointment.

Listen, if you can't even see the difference in the end then it seems that years will be spent perfecting the last 15% of a feel that nobody who played LFS long enough to appreciate it will be able to tell anymore because they haven't run LFS in almost the same amount of time this development is taking.

Not even sure why I'm saying this I'll probably get nailed as being negative, so I'm sorry for that. I wish you guys all the best and I genuinely hope you're still making some dough from LFS, it was/is a great sim and worth every penny 10 times over.

Quote :

So no, it isn't 'tough shit' for people wthout mega PCs. What complete and utter nonsense.

Anyone who actually sim races as a hobby has a wheel, and therefore can afford a basic rig as Homeless already indirectly informed you. I suppose you know a lot of people that use a laptop with their G27 right? Sure thing Alan. Don't you have a chandelier to shine or something? He didn't say HE can build a "4gb/3zsjs/ram.dhewjd,jpg.exe" as you so intelligently put it, he said that you can buy a beast rig for peanuts by LFS standards. I hope that clarifies it for you, there's no need to jump on the guy for making a simple, valid point.

Quote from NSX_FReeDoM :

Much better than rFactor 2 if I have to be honest. I tried rFactor 2 and I have to say I am rather disappointed. The physics engine just feels so odd.

... perchance does your daily commuter vehicle have it's own driver, and 13 other "special" commuters along for the trip?

Quote from MAGGOT :

There's no feel in the FFB and the car behaves oddly. I've yet to try the FRenault or the new GT cars, though.

I hate the Megane a little too but I'd never say it drives oddly for the layout & weight of the car, and it's on slicks. The 370Z however - I suggest you give it a shot, I'd like to hear what you have to say. Kind of wish it could be driven on street tires, but it's great the way it is.

The FFB comment however... there's no way we're feeling the same things, rF2 blows iR and LFS and nKP away in terms of FFB and it's not even close. It's like they took everything from all 3 sims and combined it so this has me stumped.

Last edited by Ball Bearing Turbo, Sat 24 Mar 2012, 00:54.

Just saw the thread myself - not much to say that hasn't been said, but for whatever it may be worth there's a pit in my stomach over this sad, sad news.

I didn't know Joe either but I did see his posts from time to time and he made the forum a better place with thoughtful comments. My sincere condolences.

Quote from PeterN :

Sorry but, for a winding mountain/coastal road, why is each lane twice the width of a car?

Never been to North America?

new build is out with Z370 and GTR

Surprized that for a forum that likes SIM racing this thread hasn't been rolling?!

The Z370 is probably the car I'd vote as the most life like simulation that I've driven. Feels like LFS for the most part but when OVER the limit it's not as ridiculously forgiving, and has some snap. Yet you can still drift the shit out of it after 4 beer...


I get the feeling that the oldschool crowd here is biased because it's another iteration of RF. Don't be fooled though, anyone who loves cars and driving SHOULD give this a shot. I was tempted to post about the dynamic track a few weeks ago because it's already interesting, but I resisted because I'd said quite a lot positive about RF2 already.

But, I can still say that it's worth the dough and more. If (and that's a big IF as far as I can tell) iRacing can make a tire model as believable as RF2 has already then I'd go back, but it's just not there. Graphics? Great, PCars has jawdropping visuals - but unless the physics are at least as good as RF2 then I just don't care because I need to crack a smile when I clip the inside too hard and see it starting to rise, threatening to roll me and/or send me outside violently.

RF2 is the only sim I can safely cut the curbs and bounce away grinning, and get into the throttle early and feel the back end digging out like I'd expect. Also no slippery slides in that circumstance (like LFS) and no random spins if I didn't see-saw right (like iRacing).

Come on guys, wake up, this is good stuff.

Cut paste someone please; not a current iR subscriber!